Advice on which computer to get?

[flipya]

Hi all,

I know that this must be topic #3482 on the subject, but I'm really blinded by all the options, so hopefully someone will be patient enough to help me out here.

I want to buy a new PC to model, render and do postpro on. Modelling and rendering is almost exclusively done with SU+Twilight, so that's my focus. Postpro is always done in Photoshop. I don't play any games (other than minesweeper) so that's not an issue.

CPU:
I'm thinking of two 6-core Intel chips, but have no idea how much benefit I will actually get from choosing for example a 2.80 GHz2.66 GHz over a 2.66 GHz version. Is there the option of using 4 slower quadcores and might that be even faster?

Memory:
12Gb vs 24Gb, does this actually help? How about when rendering at large dimensions? I notice that when rendering over 6000 pixels wide my current system (4Gb) will only accept really basic models. Would there be a difference in that respect between having 12 and 24?

Videocard:
Right now I'm looking at the Nvidia Quadro 4000 (2Gb) but the 5000 (2.5Gb) is also an option, at a much higher price though. How much does one benefit from a higher-end videocard when using Twilight?

Harddrives: Solid state vs oldskool, I know SS is faster, but how much space would you actually need to benefit from that when rendering? Do all your textures need to be on it, and the software as well? I want to get an SS drive as small as possible (beacuse expensive) but still benefit from it while modelling and rendering, and use a 'normal' drive for everything else.

My budget is not very defined, but I'm expecting to spend something from € 4500,- to €7000,- ($ 6500,- to $ 10,000,-), but wouldn't mind to end up at the lower end of that spectrum if it doesn't mean dropping too much performance.

Any tips and help would be greatly appreciated. Also, if there's anything that should be taken into consideration concerning a future version of Twilight I'd like to hear it. Would suck to spend this much money and then with a new TLR missing out on performance

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions...

FYI: a difference between rendering something in 2 hours instead of 2h15m is not that important to me, but 2 hours versus 4 hours is

[Sepo]

Actually without testing it is almost impossible to say what is better. Generally higher clockspeed and more cores are better. RAM will affect size of file Twi (or any other renderer) could handle and size of render itself. Graphic card will not affect TWi but it might affect photoshop as CS5 could use CUDA.
My new comp is on it's way . I went for Mac Pro. The spec is dual 6 core 2.93 Westmere Intel Xeon, 32 Gig RAM , 2 x 2Tbyte HD, 1 ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB GPU + 1 NVIDIA Quadro 4000.
I did not go for any SSD HD as they are way too expensive at moment. For rendering I will have 24 threads @ 2.93<Hz . It should be fast. Also CS5 will be accelerated with CUDA and any other software like Octane could use NVIDIA. Oh forgot to say I will have dual boot.
I will post some info once I have idea of how fast it is.

[JeZ]

What software do you use?

I am thinking to upgrade my computer, though I dont have a budget even remotely close to yours.

I use mostly SU and twilight. I would wish to have twilight running as fast as possible. Maybe some more ram would help but this is a cpu thing.

Then usually what I feel is annoyingly slow is SU, but I am not quite sure how to make it faster.

Most other software including photoshop run very nicely on my system since I bought a SSD.


I am thinking a 2600k + 8 gig ram +latest generation middle-low class gaming video card. With the other parts I already own, this is more or less 1500$ worth. And yes I build my computers from parts.


I am sure a 10 000$ computer must rock and I am quite interested to find more on dual socket motherboard, but personally I would buy 2-3000$ worth of computer parts, then a leather sofa, a dishwasher and a tv with the same money.

Dont forget you will buy a new computer in 3 years...

[flipya]

Thanks for the ideas guys, still not convinced of everything but I'll figure it out in the end.

personally I would buy 2-3000$ worth of computer parts, then a leather sofa, a dishwasher and a tv with the same money.

Well we have a new awesome sofa, dishwasher's there and we hardly watch TV. Besides, all that wouldn't be tax-deductable anyway

[Fletch]

I know that this must be topic #3482 on the subject, but I'm really blinded by all the options, so hopefully someone will be patient enough to help me out here.

It's a complex question for sure.

I want to buy a new PC to model, render and do postpro on. Modelling and rendering is almost exclusively done with SU+Twilight, so that's my focus. Postpro is always done in Photoshop. I don't play any games (other than minesweeper) so that's not an issue.

so, your video card, because of Photoshop utilizing GPU should be one that works well with Photoshop. Check out their site for help choosing the best value.

CPU:
I'm thinking of two 6-core Intel chips, but have no idea how much benefit I will actually get from choosing for example a 2.80 GHz2.66 GHz over a 2.66 GHz version. Is there the option of using 4 slower quadcores and might that be even faster?

Study these render speed benchmarks and you decide. It's clear that for $315USD you can get a corei7 that renders on 8 threads at 3.4Ghz, and so it's pretty quick. If you had a mobo that would hold 2 of those, you would be practically running a private render farm.

Memory:
12Gb vs 24Gb, does this actually help? How about when rendering at large dimensions? I notice that when rendering over 6000 pixels wide my current system (4Gb) will only accept really basic models. Would there be a difference in that respect between having 12 and 24?

SketchUp and Twilight are 32bit, so they only use 4Gb on a 64bit os. There are more programs and Twilight will have an external 64 bit studio available soon (the free Kerkythea Echo Boost 64bit) that will take advantage of the extra RAM. Start with 12, and buy more RAM if you need more. RAM goes down in price constantly.

Videocard:
Right now I'm looking at the Nvidia Quadro 4000 (2Gb) but the 5000 (2.5Gb) is also an option, at a much higher price though. How much does one benefit from a higher-end videocard when using Twilight?

see video card comment above.

Harddrives: Solid state vs oldskool, I know SS is faster, but how much space would you actually need to benefit from that when rendering? Do all your textures need to be on it, and the software as well? I want to get an SS drive as small as possible (beacuse expensive) but still benefit from it while modelling and rendering, and use a 'normal' drive for everything else.

If you find yourself waiting for loading or saving large scenes often, it may be a good idea to get an SS. Otherwise, waiting another year for the price to drop and getting good normal hard drives may be advisable.

My budget is not very defined, but I'm expecting to spend something from € 4500,- to €7000,- ($ 6500,- to $ 10,000,-), but wouldn't mind to end up at the lower end of that spectrum if it doesn't mean dropping too much performance.

For this price - € 4500 - you should be able to get 2 very very nice render machines.

Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions... FYI: a difference between rendering something in 2 hours instead of 2h15m is not that important to me, but 2 hours versus 4 hours is

[/quote]

[flipya]

Thanks for the comments Fletch! I had a pricequote made at a computerstore that a friend recommended (he runs a character-animation studio) and got this:

(2 x) Intel Xeon X5690 6-core 3,46GHz processors
24 Gb DDr3Dram
(2 x) 2 Tb Harddrives in Raid-config (mirroring)
120 Gb Solid State HD
Blu-Ray burner
Nvidia Quadro FX 4000 2Gb
new keyboard, mouse and win7 pro
Total: € 4850,-

Comments anyone?

[d12dozr]

Comments anyone?

Yeah, with the rest of your budget, get two of them and set up a Twilight render farm for hire

Have you seen the Boxx computers?

[JeZ]

I would make sure all your "secondary" components are good, so you can only upgrade a couple components in the future (and with some room to grow). Good silent case, good psu...

Maybe you should consider an hardware raid card, with 3 or 4 hdd in raid 5. Quicker and "safer".

If I was you, I would wait for the new Xeon 2P segment due at the end the year or so, but then I dont now when your accounting year is ending... (then, I still think, I would go for a system as I suggested before...)

On the other hand, another thing to add to my list of other things to do with your budget: business lunches Business lunches are fun and tax deductible

Cheers.

Jerome

[Fletch]

I am not a hardware expert!

As a fellow computer-purchaser only, I can say that it looks like a very nice computer.

However, I am confused by the need for a $1600 server processor (x2!) = $3200 for 12 threads at 3.4Ghz.

Unless of course you plan to seriously overclock (with assistance from an expert, this should be easily done - depending on power supply, cooling, RAM speed, etc.). It seems that you could get at least 16 threads and even faster by installing 2 corei7 2600K processors (if there is a mobo that can do this). That computer would be a faster rendering machine than the one you list and the cost of the 2 processors would be approx. $600. The 2600K is built at 3.4Ghz out of the box and also to overclock, so if you plan on overclocking, it could easily (just like the xeon) overclock to more than 4 (you can reasonably expect 4.2 without a problem presuming you've done your homework with your other hardware, mobo, RAM, power supply, cooling)

12 threads(3.4) = 40.8Ghz processing power
16 threads(3.4) = 54.4Ghz processing power

12(4.2) = 50.4Ghz (still less than the 2 stock i7s)
16(4.2) = 67.2Ghz (quite a bit more processing power per dollar)

[JeZ]

installing 2 corei7 2600K processors (if there is a mobo that can do this)

Afaik, it does not exist and it wont. As weird as it looks, the current sandy bridge lineup is consumer grade.

There will be "enthusiast" dual socket LGA2011 boards. It will arrive i guess at the same time as the 2P xeons.

The problem with dual sockets is the CPU need to be able to "talk" to each other. Sandy brige chips cant. This is why 2-4P Xeons cost quite a lot of money because they are designed to do so.


Then again, Xeons are "server" chips, though I dont know much about these, I am pretty sure there is a lot of features that are useless for SU, TWL and PS.


I guess a couple of barebone 2600K pc slaves would have a more effective cost/performance ratio, but It is probably hard to set up...



@flipya, as Fletch said this would be an awesome pc, by all means go for it if you want to. I was just trying to offer a different perspective. I hope it helped you...

Jerome