Material libraries does not appear

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MEM
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Material libraries does not appear

Post by MEM » Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:20 pm

Hi,

The Material libraries does not appear when I click on "import" in "tools" in the the "Deep material editor" window. I'm trying to follow a tutorial for Material libraries, but it's not possible when the options and windows mentioned don't actually appear. I have Twilight Render Pro, is that why it doesn't show ?

Thank you for your help !

Chris
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Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by Chris » Fri Mar 03, 2023 8:30 pm

The most likely issue is that you don't have a material loaded in the Deep Material editor yet. You can't "import" a material unless you have a target for where that imported material will go. So, you need to select a SketchUp material first and then you should be able to "import" a library material into it.

MEM
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by MEM » Sat Mar 04, 2023 5:31 pm

So, that worked, "a library" appeared, but I tried adding new materials through the directories (as explained in the tutorial: https://www.twilightrender.com/index.ph ... -libraries), and it doesn't appear in my import library. All I see in it are the original Twilight Render materials.

I'm working with OS Montery, so maybe the path to installing textures isn't the same ?

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MEM
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by MEM » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:08 pm

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MEM
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Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by MEM » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:28 pm

Also, can I use Poliigon textures in TR ?

And can I import a texture one at a time or do I absolutely have to download entire libraries at a time ?

MEM
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by MEM » Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:29 pm

After going through the whole tutorial I must say I'm a bit overwhelmed, I never thought it would be that complicated to import textures...

Fletch
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Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by Fletch » Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:55 am

So it's probably confusing because of some terms that are used in 3D rendering can mean different things to different people with different programs.

In Twilight Render:
Materials : Any color or texture and any additional property given to a face in your scene. The SketchUp "null" texture or "default" texture is still considered a material and has a property of "white" color and no reflection.

Color: this is the diffuse color for an object - this is the basic color you want that object to be. It is the color as viewed on a diffuse cloudy flat light day. It is NOT the color of the object in shadow or in sunlight. This is the job of the render engine to figure out. The Default SketchUp material is by default too white for test rendering and it is suggested to apply a different material that is 70%-80% grey to all white surfaces, and set your darkest black material in your scene to 20% grey - this means that all other colors should fall within the spectrum relative to one-another in between these colors of 20%-80% grey (whichever you choose, I use 70% for white).

Template: This is a basic setup of multiple parameters created by Twilight Render that automatically loads many complicated parameters so that you can just click and go. You apply Twilight Templates to SketchUp Materials. You must choose a material in the scene before you can apply a template.

Library: This is a special formatted text file that is a group of Materials with Twilight Templates applied or complex parameters applied manually in the Deep Material Editor such as reflectivity, bump, etc. A library is a GROUP of materials specially packaged for reading and loading by Twilight Render. Dropping textures into a folder is NOT A LIBRARY. That's just folder organizing. Libraries are not easily created by users in Twilight Render. However, you CAN create your own Custom Template. If you create a Material with special settings you like by applying a normal Template and the changing the settings and now you want to load it quickly in the future, add it as a new Custom Template in the bottom of the pull-down in the Twilight Material Editor.

Texture: can be an image like wood or rusted metal, could be a specially created bump or specular map or normal map or shininess map or displacement map (Twilight doesn't support displacement, but displacement maps also work in Bump channel) Texture files can be placed in any channel.

Maps: another word for texture images

Mapping: (aka UV Mapping) The exact size/position/placement of a texture image onto a surface in SketchUp - this is controlled by placing an image texture in SketchUp using SketchUp's material texture placement tools. Twilight Render does not do UV mapping. That's a tool in SketchUp. The UV mapping of the texture on a face in the scene will control the UV mapping of all textures used in all channels of the material in Twilight Render. **edit** Twilight Pro has some UV mapping helping tools built in. Select a face(s) that has a texture image applied in SketchUp and right-click the face(s) and choose Twilight Render V2>Texture and apply a UV mapping preset, immediately after applying the mapping preset read the bottom of the screen for instructions on scaling the texture image before clicking away/out of the editing mode for the texture.

Fletch
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Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by Fletch » Mon Mar 06, 2023 9:58 am

MEM wrote: Sat Mar 04, 2023 6:28 pm Also, can I use Poliigon textures in TR ?

And can I import a texture one at a time or do I absolutely have to download entire libraries at a time ?
How to use Poliigon textures in Twilight Render, and it should answer your texture question:


MEM
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2023 9:08 pm

Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by MEM » Wed Mar 08, 2023 10:24 pm

I was pretty much 100% on my interpretation of most terminology (even though I never could've given such detailed description as you did), but it was nice to revise them, never hurts, and I understand why you would (all possible misunderstandings are covered that way). The only exception, and where my confusion came from, was for what was meant exactly by "library" (a group of information files on one PBR material OR a group of many separate PBR files about many different PBR materials and all that comes with one - if you follow me), and even more so, my confusion came from not knowing where exactly to integrate or work on those imported PBR files within Twilight Render.

Thankfully, and as usual so far, you directed me right where I needed to be ! :D (wish I could stick in a heart emoticon here) The tutorial you shared was extremely useful to understand the whole process of how to use imported materials and textures (which are in libraries, each PBR it's own :lol: ). So a HUGE THANK YOU for that, you are so great ! And BTW, your voice is so calm and soothing in the tutorial that it makes complicated things look easier. :lol:

Using the "Normal" files though, up to their full potential I mean, in the Deep material arborescence, that seems a lot less user-friendly than the "regular" interface (the template material window). I'm comparing the free version possibilities to what us pro users have the possibility of doing. I took loads of notes, for the paths in Deep Material, but there are so many options, it's easy to get lost. I'm thinking intensive users (everyday all year long) find it easy quickly (cause of repetition). I'm using this rendering tool only part-time, only for a portion of my work, so I don't know if I'll "find my way easy" as fast as those intensive users. Do you think eventually those operations in the Deep Material window, the arborescence paths to go through, could be transformed to take the form of the template material window, a bit more user friendly interface ??? Just thinking out loud here... I hope you don't mind me asking ? :totgm:

Chris
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Re: Material libraries does not appear

Post by Chris » Thu Mar 09, 2023 3:36 pm

You are right that the Deep Material editor is complicated! It is geared more toward "maximum flexibility", but does sacrifice a lot of user friendliness.

Unfortunately, the material system of the underlying renderer (the Kerkythea system) isn't very ... intuitive. So striking a balance between exposing all the available configuration options and making it easy to use isn't easy.

It is possible that the Deep Material editor could be redone to make it more sensible. I can't say at this time whether that is a practical thing or not, given what we want for our next steps for Twilight Render. Perhaps in the meantime, there are options that could be integrated into the Template Material editor that would bring some improved flexibility (such as the option to mark a bump map as a "normal map" instead).

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